Post By: PikeMartin Posted: 8/12/2017 9:37:14 PMPoints: 155
So a month a go I caught a Master Angler Pike at Williams Fork Reservoir. I sent off the MA paperwork and today received a letter from Parks and Wildlife.
The letter stated I'm not eligible to receive the MA reward. Awards for Pike are not given to any fish caught east of the divide unless its kept (I released mine). This is such garbage considering Williams Fork is the only lake in the state that protects like (Slot 27-34). WHAT A JOKE
Reply by: skiman Posted: Aug. 12, 11:01:30 PM Points: 1220
I agree with Goose, you know you caught it, and I hope you took a couple of pics to remember the experience. What I don't agree with is that Colorado fish management is a joke! Difficult to accept and understand perhaps, but definitely not a joke.
Reply by: skiman Posted: Aug. 13, 12:05:28 PM Points: 1220
Pike, Your post implies you were not aware of the rules regarding Master Angler award for pike in all waters west of the Continental Divide, when the application brochure clearly states that pike and smallmouth bass need to be harvested for this award. This is due to the illegal introduction of these species in many western slope waters, and the issues they are creating for other species of fish. You need to be better acquainted with the requirements for the MA award in the bodies of water you fish.
Reply by: Fishing Info Posted: Aug. 13, 2:55:22 PM Points: 12
Congrats, Luke the dog has probably never caught a MA so he's just jealous. CDOW hates pike and it's really disappointing. I really would like to have a few places that produce good consistent numbers and sized northerns. I've been to the fork and know you have to put in the time to get one let alone a MA.
Reply by: jig head Posted: Aug. 13, 9:03:18 PM Points: 673
Skiman..what issues are they creating for other fish? I'm tired of the negativity towards pike and other fish ( small mouth, lake trout and walleye). It seems like it's either the that the CPW gets alot of government funding to protect native species, or people think that and over react about pike and other fish will depleat the trout population, (also non native and eat other fish). If it's about trout, (and it wasn't mentioned, but assumed) think about lakes with pike, Lakers, bass, or walleye in them. Almost all of these locations have a healthy ballance, and good fishing for all species. (11mile, spinney, stagecoach, Granby, williamsfork, elkhead, and many more. If it's about native species, then it's about government funding and $$$ for CPW. I just don't understand it... Rant over, I'll just enjoy the pike fishing before it sucks and only stocker trout are left swimming and use powebait...
Reply by: skiman Posted: Aug. 14, 11:41:01 AM Points: 1220
Jig, I am always amazed when folks talk about one species of fish when they refer to a specific impoundment. Whether it be pike, trout, bass, or any other species, it's not just about that fish, it's about the entire ecosystem and health of the whole fishery. I'm not an expert in this area, but I do know illegally introduced fish do have a definite impact. Take Asian carp, or the snakefish as an example. These two species are wreaking havoc in our waters, and although an extreme example compared to pike, the same effect applies. As concerned anglers we need to look at the big picture, and not develop "tunnel vision" when it comes to a certain fish we like to catch. As I said before, there are many reasons why certain rules are in place, and I believe putting forth the effort to understand regulations is far more productive than whining about them. I like Nevadas' approach to "bucket biology"!
Reply by: Whelenman358 Posted: Aug. 14, 11:58:02 AM Points: 110
Were pike illegally introduced in Willaims Fork Res? If so maybe the DOW would have a leg to stand on.
Regarding the slot limit, the MA length is beyond the slot limit by 2" so they are not required to be released. However, since they are protecting big pike there, it really makes little sense to require fish larger than 34" to be killed. But then we are talking about the Colorado Parks and Wildlife who often don't make sense.
Personally I think we should kill every trout we catch and even things out.
Reply by: TigerHunter Posted: Aug. 14, 1:26:51 PM Points: 453
We don't share the same goals when it comes to life or fishing. If someone is excited about receiving an award why does it have to be childish? It's just a piece of paper... yes, but it's also legitimizes an accomplishment for some folks and if you ask me makes for a cool conversation piece along with a picture or replica mount.
I do wish the CPW paid more attention to the MA awards. There are plenty of the Catch & Release records that are bogus which tarnishes the entire C&R State record program.
Congrats on catching a nice fish. Might want to check the In-Fisherman Master Angler award requirements and see if you quality.
Reply by: sickws6 Posted: Aug. 14, 1:27:23 PM Points: 709
PikeMartin, great you got a MA NPK! and even better on the release!!!
As for the MA I think it is stupid that you cant get your award because you released it, but it does say on the MA App they must be kept...
What I do is catch said pike release the pike and know in my head I just got a MA NPK and to me the rewards of releasing the pike is better then the award. because I know I boil peoples blood when I release that trophy right in front of them.
Reply by: Smelly Posted: Aug. 14, 2:58:43 PM Points: 14208
Congrats Pikemartin on your trophy pike. And while I don't think CPW fisheries management is a joke. I agree with your point on this particular lake . Here you have a case where the CPW is.. TRYING.. to produce a " QUALITY " pike fishery. Yet in order to receive the Recognition for catching a trophy fish. They expect you to KILL IT ! Seems awful counterproductive to me . And I have no Idea how taking what I am assuming is an " older quality fish " out of the equation . Is going to improve the conditions for growing more " older quality fish. Unless there is a LOT MORE of them in there than the guys that fish the place are letting on to. Which I doubt.
I am more than open to an explanation on how DESTROYING a trophy fish is sound management practice for PRODUCING more of the SAME trophy fish !
Reply by: skiman Posted: Aug. 14, 3:18:36 PM Points: 1220
Whelenman, Whether pike were illegally stocked or not is a moot point. The fact remains that what used to be an exceptional population of Kokanee salmon declined drastically in 2010 and 2011 due to the increased predation from lake trout and pike, as well as other factors, (gill lice etc.). These events upset the ecosystem at Williams Fork, and only through the conscientious efforts of the CPW is the population of kokes now on the upswing. Williams Fork is being managed as a trophy pike fishery thus the slot limit. No doubt the pike and lake trout are there, they need to be managed and controlled so as to not effect the other species in the reservoir. That's part of the "big picture" I'm referring to.
Reply by: TigerHunter Posted: Aug. 14, 3:19:57 PM Points: 453
How is it a participation trophy? If it's monitored properly and a trophy fish was caught and in this case released it's far from a participation trophy it's something the CPW does cool to recognize trophy fish caught by anglers, and they do it at no cost to the angler vs a replica mount that you're talking at minimum a couple hundred bucks and that's if it's a bluegill. There's nothing wrong with participating in the MA program as an adult although right now it's based on the honor system nothing more. If you're honest enjoy the award I think they look great framed and on the wall. I haven't applied for one in years, but there was a time where I really enjoyed the entire process and hanging them up.
The qualifying size should be changed for some species but that's for another thread.
To me, a replica mount is a cool reminder of a fish that swam away, and likely a good story. A real mount is also very cool, it lasts longer than the fillet! Who cares how much somebody spent? Bill Gates is a very smart man- doesn't matter to me if he has real OR replica mounts, or how much he spends on vacation. Does it matter to you if a bum spends his whole paycheck on crack? Or food? What does it matter?
Focus, instead, on when the walleye are biting, and don't worry about what somebody else does.
Reply by: Whelenman358 Posted: Aug. 14, 9:53:05 PM Points: 110
Its not really a moot point. In one of your previous post you lamented the "illegal stocking" of fish to support the current rules and desires of the DOW. If Williams was intentionally stocked, and given the DOW's obvious desire to protect pike in this lake (slot limit), the MA rules for 36" and larger pike are ludicrous. This thread is about that lake, not about the other waters west of the divide. And THAT lake is managed as a trophy pike water. If it was gold medal water for trout, and they said the trout had to be killed to qualify for MA, would you be so nonchalant about it? That is essentially what they are doing here, except to pike.
As far as Kokanee go, I offer up Carter Lake. It used to be a great Kokanee fishery and then the walleye took over and ate um all up. And they ate a good portion of the trout, splake, bass, and everything else too. So, since they are having a massive impact on kokanee there, should the DOW put a bounty on the big walleyes? I mean heck, if we get rid of the walleye in Carter, we could probably catch a lot more slimers and kokes right. And the entire ecosystem would be better off because the walleye wouldn't be eating everything in sight.
Your comment about Asian carp and snakefish is right on though. They and other species do cause a lot of harm to an ecosystem. However, pike and other predatory fish do coexist in other states just fine with many other species of fish, why is it such a problem here.
I find it interesting that the DOW seems to hate pike and wants to get rid of them west of the divide, yet seem to be relatively unconcerned about the overpopulation of carp in this state and the damage caused by them. Really sucks to go to a lake or pond hoping to catch a bass and see a bunch of @#% %@#* carp go swimming by mucking up the water. Lets see, catch a pike or a slimy carp, dang thats a tough choice.
Luke the Dog,
How is a MA award really any different than awards for sports teams, awards and certificates given to employees, ect. It simply confirms something that may possibly be important to the person receiving the award. Why should that only be for kids. If a certificate should be for kids then a photo of your achievement should be for kids also. Dang, guess we'll have to stop taking photos except for fish the kids caught.
Congratulations on the big fish. I suggest that next time you catch a big pike on the west slope, send your paperwork in and just tell them you kept it. What the DOW doesn't know won't hurt em'. Or tell em you caught it on the east slope and released it.
Reply by: sickws6 Posted: Aug. 15, 9:51:26 AM Points: 709
Whelenman358 Great response. I am strictly a pike smallmouth Largemouth guy. I do not target ANYTHING else in this trout state. I just try to stay out of the pike conversation because I think the news is feeding the public a lot of fake news, and this site is like pounding your head into walls when this subject comes up, no FACTS or STUDIES are ever shown by the pike haters on here...
another thing is we are losing leases on our lakes that DONT have pike in them (lonetree) but we can spend the 20 dollar bounty per pike at GMR or the Poachfest that happened at Elkhead and pay the Tagged fish a huge amount that could keep lakes and put more ans inspectors out. seems like these people care more about killing said pike to collect there 20 bones, which is stupid in my opinion put a slot on them, then use that 20 dollars to keep lakes we will lose in the next 10 years
Reply by: esoxrocks Posted: Aug. 15, 10:24:53 AM Points: 2371
So many conflicting policies, research, and politics involved here. The bottom line is that the feds have mandated that west slope impoundments with access to rivers have “invasive species” eliminated or significantly mitigated. Whether CPW originally put the fish there or not... they now want them controlled. That's the deal, and it’s not going to stop.
...this, from someone who says "esox rocks" right there in my screen name. ...heh